Would any Homeopath or fan of homeopathy like to have a point for point debate with me on this format?!
Question: Agree and you'll be the first answerer on there and we'll just keep adding numbered points and effectivley 'ignore' the rest of the answers. It will not decent into abuse or name calling.
Answers: Agree and you'll be the first answerer on there and we'll just keep adding numbered points and effectivley 'ignore' the rest of the answers. It will not decent into abuse or name calling.
I'll try to answer this as best as I can.
I found the idea of hemopathy very interesting, so I decided to start looking it up. Pretty early on, I became convinced "it works," but I wasn't really sure why (since I'm a chemistry student).
After reading the positions of most homeopaths on this matter, they essentially said "The stuff clearly works and gets results, but we have no idea why. We have observed that deviating from the correct preparation procedure, using the incorrect remedy, or exposing it to electrical/magnetic fields ruins the remedies, but we still have no idea why they affect the body" (since they are just water after all).
There's somewhate of a bias in allopathic medicine that if "if you cannot explain how something works (even if the explanation isn't necessarily correct), then you cannot use it as medicine." This somewhat contrasts the methods used in a lot of other places where they just go off of if "something works or does not work" rather than why. Homeopathy falls into this category, as do many traditional medical practices used (ie. parts of Chinese Medicine).
So jumping back, the big problem with homeopathy is that "it can't possibly work because there is nothing besides water," and "this undermines our current knowledge of chemistry if it there actually is." This is the part of homeopathy that I personally find really interesting, and what ive been focused on.
Long story short, there are 2 things at work which I think may explain it.
The first is that water has a tendancy to remember or store infromation (based on how all the water networks configure). It's not very well known, but putting a single molecule of NaCl in water can dramatically alter the structure of the water in that area. It's supposed that even though the substances themselves dissapear, the effects of how they changed the structure remain for a long time afterwards. There's a branch of psuedoscience who call themselves naturalists, and they've found when you correct waters structure with magnets and stuff it has all sorts of interesting doccumentable effects, such as improving people's health and getting rid of algea or bacterial growth.
The second jumps back to a chinese medicine theory. They believe that most of your health is a result of how your chi or energy effects the body, and that most health problems can be traced to problems in chi. They've found lots of foods and substances you can ingest which change your bodies chi, and as a result health, and that's the basis for Chinese Herbal medicine (as opposed to focusing on active components). I'm a firm believer the previous model is correct.
Many homeopaths claim that homeopathic remedies (through the structural changes in water I suppose) affect the bodies vital force, and the vital force in turn affects health. To me this sounds like a very similar model to the Chinese medicine theory, they just are using their own terms for it. So at this point, I hold the opinion homeopathic remedies works by affecting the body's chi.
Then again, if you accept this as true, it opens up a rather big pandoras box; rather than substances simply mattering on how they chemically interact with the body, you also have to take into account how they affect the bodies energy. This makes a lot of previous suppositions false and in need of updating. Given all the implications of adopting this theory, I highly doubt it will gain acceptiance. It just complicates matters too much.
Besides that, studies have been done by real medical journals thet prove homeopathy works. I've never been a fan for evidence based medicine personally just because of how easily it can prove a falsehood (if a trial is manipulated) while being heralded as truth; however people like to know evidence exists for homeopathy so I'll throw it out. If you want to know more, I can send you a study. I'm more a fan of testing things myself and seeing results with my own eyes. It's a bit unscientific, but that's what I personally trust.
Homepathy does definitely seem to work in my eyes, but there is a major caviat. If you misdiagnose someone and give them the wrong remedy, it's almost useless. Depending on the condition, this can sometimes be extremely difficult to do. As a result, I've found many of homeopathy's short fallings lie in the quality of the homeopath, not the method. However, with the 2 "genius' homeopaths I know, it's very rare for them to not be able to cure their patient.
Hope that's a good response for your Q!
Whew, let's see what I can do. Truthfully, I've never seen the topic not go to flaming from this point.
I hold the opinion evidence based medicine is crap. There are a lot of factors it can't test for, and it essentially just allows whoever has the most finanical clout to prove their viempoint. Case in point; ozone is a really good therapy that fixes a lot of conditions and is cheap. In cuba and germany it's one of the main things used in their medicial systems, and they have done a lot of scientific trials to prove the stuff worked (I just finished reading through about 100 for a research paper).
However, according to the american medical association there is "NO evidence ozone has ever been proven have any positive medical effects" (when in fact it works significantly better than most of what we have).
Homeopathy is basically in the same situation. It's usage goes against the interests of the american medical system. It's cheap, you don't need to be a trained doctor to use it, and it invalidates a lot of lucrative healing pratices. As a result, There is no evidence whatsoever that homeopathy has ever worked bla bla bla bla.
That however is somewhat of a falsehood; lots of trials have been conducted that prove it does. They just get ignored.
Last time I got fed up with hearing the anti alt med people spam the forums with "there is absolutely no evidence homeopathy works", I pulled this up:
"Homeopathic medicines are high dilutions of natural substances
such as plants, minerals, and animals. In the most significant and
comprehensive review of homeopathic research ever
conducted, The Lancet (September 20, 1997) published a metaanalysis
of 89 blinded, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical
trials and concluded that the homeopathic medicines in the
studies had a 2.45 times greater effect than placebo."
But to jump back, I am extremely cynical of standard scientific evidence. I have seen way too many times where the established scientific proof was a lie, and an alterend truth to suit the aims of whoever wanted to promote a certain viewpoint. I have lots of case studies I can name, I've even read books explaining exactly how the whole process is done.
Where does that leave me? I don't trust evidence based medicine on faith (whereas most academics & doctors) do. Generally, I just use that information as anothe thing to evualate if something is "good or bad" rather than the defining.
With a lot of alternative medicine practices, such as homeopathy, given the huge ammount of disinformation on both sides, you really don't have any choice except to test it for yourself to know the truth. That's what I have done, and that's why I believe it works. Seeing someone with a chronic condition they had for 15 years heal within 3 weeks of taking a remedy isn't absolute objective proof the remedy worked, but then again neither are most of the things trumpeted as proof either.
"If the theory that heavily diluted agents can still afect water even though it's not there then what state is the sea in?"
No idea. I'm not qualified to make a statement on what the answer is.
Hmm...not sure what else to say. I think that addresses everything you said.
no homeoppaths here mate
First, state your opinion. Cite references, if you can.
yeah! I want to debate on youre side though, i think homosexuality is wrong too!
your source...it doesn't work...your words, no citations
my source...it does work, quite effectively, my words, no citations
There's no point in having a debate. Homeopathy cannot be fully explained as to why it works, there are just theories. The same goes for modern prescription medications, it cannot be fully explained on how it works either. Modern research in evidence based studies have proven only 20% of prescription medications to work. And yet, we blindly accept both based mostly on anecdotal evidence.
Yes I am pro homeopathic medicine. In 1929 the federal government and the medical establishment and the pharmaceutical manufacturers got together and they started our medical community as we see it now. Homeopathy was the way ALL medicine was practiced before this decision was made. It too time for the teaching hospitals to convert and during this time period many homeopathic doctors graduated medical school. I about 1960 most if not all homeopaths were gone. a few still existed and still do. If you will research, This this was the beginning of the problems that we have now. Homeopath doctors NEVER killed people with drugs.Homeopaths talked to and knew their patients. They treated the illness and not symptoms. If you had a stomach ache. The doctor would ask what you had eaten. If he knew this had caused you problems past. He would tell you what had made you sick. Maybe a laxative would have been suggested. Today the modern doctor would do tests and then prescribe a medication with side effects that you will take forever so that he can get his commission. Synthetic chemicals are the way of the modern doctor. The homeopath KNEW that nutrition and exercise could improve you immune system. This lead to better health because the IMMUNE SYSTEM IS ALL THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP US ILLNESS FREE! Chemicals alter or modify the immune system. That is the last thing our body need is a modified immune system.
Homeopathy can be used to strengthen the defense systems of the body and to stimulate healing of mental and emotional balances. Homeopathic remedies are an excellent therapy to stimulate or help repair a damaged immune system.
Homeopathic researchers are finding that each homeopathic remedy has it's own "fingerprint" on the electromagnetic spectrum. It appears that homeopathic remedies work on a vibrational/energetic level. Unlike most pharmaceutical or natural medicines, homeopathic remedies appear to work directly at the electromagnetic level. In some ways, each remedy has a different electromagnetic frequency, and thus action, similar to the variou actions of different acupuncture points.
Reasons for using homeopathy
1. Homeopathy is highly effective for both chronic and acute diseases, including epidemics. It works to strengthen the immune and other healing systems of ths body. It can be used to treat conditions for which conventional medicine has no effective treatment.
2. It is cost effective. Compared to pharmaceutical medications, homeopathic remedies are quite inexpensive.
3. It is a preventative medicine. One does not have to have a disease to be treated with homeopathy. It can be used to optimize health.
4. It can be used to treat the whole person. Homeopathy takes into account all the factors of a person's health, even a child's- the mental, the emotional, and the physical.
5. Side effects are not an issue, which is especially i,portant when it comes to children and seniors, who are more prone to toxic side effects of medications.
If you're not a believer, that's up to you. Maybe you should do some research into the origins of homeopathics before you decide to be so anti. Picking an online argument is somewhat ridiculous. My guess is you are for the big pharma. Instead of trying to get to the bottom of something that was brought to light in 1790, explain why the prescription meds today cause so many side effects, injuries, deaths and other serious problems.
Presription medications today are very dangerous. They do not take any aspect of healing into consideration. All they do is mask the symptoms, when in reality there are far more issues to be addressed in order for the body to heal itself. They are simply a way to make huge amounts of money with no regard to the people they harm.
Oh boy, did Kalos/Opus open another account?